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The Federal Vampire and Zombie Agency
Welcome to the FVZA Forum, a place to discuss vampires, zombies and other things that go bump in the night.
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Dis
Cadet
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 111
Location: USA
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 Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:01 pm Post subject: Immortality |
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How could a vampire be immortal (without resorting to supernatural explanations)?
If the human body was capable of living so long on its own, it would. Therefore, to be immortal, the vampire would need something complimenting it. A symbiotic creature, probably.
It is best to explain the aging process for this sort of thing:
Aging is brought about as the genetic code mutates throughout your body. It will mutate so as to do its job less efficiently untill you are stuck with cancer. Cancer is a cluster of mutant cells that grow uncontrollably and leach off the body's metabolism and just generally getting in the way. Every 100,000 cell division results in mutation, I believe.
It is possible that the parasite creates an environment inside the body that cancer cannot live in. It would eliminate any cells that stray from the originals' structure. But what's to keep the organism's cells from mutating and doing their job less efficiently?
Personally, I think that the symbiote just makes the vampire much harder to kill, which eventually evolved through word of mouth to "immortality".
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When we had traveled forward to the spot
From which it pleased my master to have me see
That creature whose beauty once had been so great,
He made me stop and moved from in front of me.
"Look: here is Dis."
-Dante Allighari |
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Brekar
Scourge of the Undead
Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 1054
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: Immortality |
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| Dis wrote: | | Aging is brought about as the genetic code mutates throughout your body. |
Maybe its as simple as something as the genetic code forgets to mutate in the direction that causes aging...
Just a thought...
Later... |
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Judge_Khan
Scourge of the Undead
Joined: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 1601
Location: I come from a land down under, where women glow and men plunder
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:26 am Post subject: |
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Either that, or vampires are 'immortal' within certain strictures because of their horrible supernatural curse.
But the symbiote idea is used extensively in the Necroscope canon - the true vampire is an 18-inch long leech-like creature that lives inside the body, on the left side of the spine behind to the heart. It alters cells so they don't deteriorate normally, they replecate at incredible speeds are immune to most diseases...plus the added bonus of some freaky metamorphic powers, including this one time where a Lady of the Wamphyri (high order of vampires) stretches her vagina wide enough for the Lord she's having sex with to dive in head first. Which is just a charming thought, really, isn't it?
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Doctor_Bedlam
SCIENCE!!!
Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 2301
Location: In his secret lab-matory in the basement of the Alamo
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Ooookay, first of all, aging isn't caused by cell mutation. It's caused by telomere degradation -- replicative fading, as Star Trek put it.
Over time, your telomeres -- an essential part of your cells, and a major factor in cell division -- get chewed up as a result of endless cell replication, which is a normal part of your life cycle. Eventually, cells begin to look a bit shabby, as opposed to when you were younger. Basically, it's the same thing that happens when you make xerox copies of xerox copies -- over time, they begin to look worse and worse.
Furthermore, nerve cells don't reproduce and replace themselves. They quit doing that when you were a toddler. In time, tbey begin to die off.
Add that to the fact that many of your specialized cells quit replacing themselves with the alacrity and efficiency they did when you were younger, plus the buildup of crud in your body, either by way of your bad habits or simply as a result of living a long time...
...and you have "aging."
Vampires are undead. I always figured the reason they didn't age was because they represent an interruption in the life cycle. Their cells don't die, and aren't replaced. They're in suspended animation, so to speak, fueled by blood and life-force, or whatever.
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"Know Enough To Be Afraid"
-- motto of Transylvania Polygnostic University |
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darkfox
The Dark One
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 6991
Location: Half-way between here and there...
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| Doctor_Bedlam wrote: | | Vampires are undead. I always figured the reason they didn't age was because they represent an interruption in the life cycle. Their cells don't die, and aren't replaced. They're in suspended animation, so to speak, fueled by blood and life-force, or whatever. |
That's about the best Immortal Vampire explaination I've seen to date.
Thanks Doc!
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Dis
Cadet
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 111
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Doctor_Bedlam wrote: | | Over time, your telomeres -- an essential part of your cells, and a major factor in cell division -- get chewed up as a result of endless cell replication, which is a normal part of your life cycle. Eventually, cells begin to look a bit shabby, as opposed to when you were younger. Basically, it's the same thing that happens when you make xerox copies of xerox copies -- over time, they begin to look worse and worse. |
This deterioration of the cells is mutation. Every now and then, your cells screw up when they replicate.
_________________
When we had traveled forward to the spot
From which it pleased my master to have me see
That creature whose beauty once had been so great,
He made me stop and moved from in front of me.
"Look: here is Dis."
-Dante Allighari |
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darkfox
The Dark One
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 6991
Location: Half-way between here and there...
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Stricly speaking a mutation would warp or drastically change the properties of cells.
Deterioration is a natural phenominon. Cells grow to a certain point and then regeneration slowly drops off to the point where there aren't enough cells to support life.
Perhaps the mutation is getting the cells to stop deteriorating, but it's probably a lot closer to a complete halt to the deterioration process instead of completely changing the properties of the cells themselves.
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Doctor_Bedlam
SCIENCE!!!
Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 2301
Location: In his secret lab-matory in the basement of the Alamo
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:55 am Post subject: |
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Dis:
Yes... cells do mutate. In fact, you and I and everyone on this board are, technically, mutants. The law of averages states that you and I have an average of two viable cell mutations, somewhere in our bodies.
My mutant powers include reading text at superhuman speeds, typing really fast and making excruciatingly sarcastic remarks. Howzabout you?
Aging is not due to cell mutation. Most cell mutations die. The mutant cells, most times, don't work. Most mutant life forms who followed the wrong DNA sequence DIE. We are engineered to operate in a specific way. Screw things up, things don't work, and you DIE.
If aging was due to cell mutation, you would not look human by the time you reached puberty. You would resemble a roughly humanoid pizza.
With cancer.
And that's assuming your violently screwed up metabolism allowed you to survive that long.
Don't take my word for it. Try reading something on the subject. Hell, try googling "aging in human beings." You will find a variety of interesting articles that will explain it in detail.
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"Know Enough To Be Afraid"
-- motto of Transylvania Polygnostic University |
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The Unbeholden
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| darkfox wrote: | | Doctor_Bedlam wrote: | | Vampires are undead. I always figured the reason they didn't age was because they represent an interruption in the life cycle. Their cells don't die, and aren't replaced. They're in suspended animation, so to speak, fueled by blood and life-force, or whatever. |
That's about the best Immortal Vampire explaination I've seen to date.
Thanks Doc! |
It the simplest explanation one could come up with to identify them, especially back in the days before the age of reason, when people where very superstitious.
Though actual vampires aren't undead. That would mean one would have to die first, and would mean vampires are walking corpses, which is absurd of course. If vampires are real then they would be alive, and never dead to begin with. |
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The Unbeholden
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Immortality |
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| Dis wrote: | How could a vampire be immortal (without resorting to supernatural explanations)?
If the human body was capable of living so long on its own, it would. Therefore, to be immortal, the vampire would need something complimenting it. A symbiotic creature, probably.
It is best to explain the aging process for this sort of thing:
Aging is brought about as the genetic code mutates throughout your body. It will mutate so as to do its job less efficiently untill you are stuck with cancer. Cancer is a cluster of mutant cells that grow uncontrollably and leach off the body's metabolism and just generally getting in the way. Every 100,000 cell division results in mutation, I believe.
It is possible that the parasite creates an environment inside the body that cancer cannot live in. It would eliminate any cells that stray from the originals' structure. But what's to keep the organism's cells from mutating and doing their job less efficiently?
Personally, I think that the symbiote just makes the vampire much harder to kill, which eventually evolved through word of mouth to "immortality". |
Human body isn't designed to live for more then 115 years, Due to other factors, humans only live up to 80 (usually, and thats in developed countries). If vampires exist then I think they themselves don't know what they are, though can form theories on it of course. And can get their blood tested in the hospital (just to see what interesting things can come up in the test). I'm guessing vampires blood has been tested by human beings many a times. Though unless your specifically trying to find something then chances are you won't find it, human technology is as yet very limited when it comes to analyzing and examining DNA and blood. It has to be put into a microscope, added special chemicals (dyes that change color when coming into contact with specific diseases and so on).
A symbotic creature is a interesting theory for the real immortal vampire. Diseases usually feed off a human being, to continue its own life but end up killing the host, and thus itself along with it. A more effective disease would be one that extends the life of its host (indefinitely) if thats vampirism then its definitely the highest form of viral bacteria. But I think the more simpler explanation is that vampires are simply the next stage of evolution, or simply a sub-species (not like races of humans) but that forms from the current one into a new group (thus making a new species rather then continuing the current one). But that doesn't make much sense either cause subspecies are usually created when a different species mates with another. That would be like a human mating with a bat. I would go on the evolution theory.
Human evolution but into one that's become more of a parasite. Parasites feed off its victims usually without its victim knowing about it; examples would be much like a horse that went through the swamp for a swim and ended up with a leech stuck on its back for instance, or a bat feeding on a cow while it sleeps (taking a bit of blood but not enough to kill it, the saliva of a bat has a property that dulls pain). Now the thought of a parasite is not very scary, as it doesn't really pose a threat. But Imagine a human sized parasite that has evolutionized (stronger, faster, sharp teeth) so it can easily extract blood for its survival. The possibilities in evolution branching from humans become ever more varied, as humans are much more complex. So the thought of a vampire with a logical explanation is more real in this day and age (even after the whole Age of Reason coming and crushing all that superstition). |
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anthropomorphic skitzo
Shadow
Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 750
Location: in your head
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| The Unbeholden wrote: | | Though actual vampires aren't undead. That would mean one would have to die first, and would mean vampires are walking corpses, which is absurd of course. If vampires are real then they would be alive, and never dead to begin with. |
Well some beliefs are that the human body dies when the vampire disease/venom takes over the human body and thus you have a reanimated corps that rises seeking blood to quench its eternal thirst. The body would rise from the dead because whatever has entered the human bloodstream is either keeping it alive or keeping it mobile. So this would mean the vampire is one of the undead.
I have my own theory, but I use my theories to write my own supernatural stories. So I can never be as descriptive as I would like but my thoughts are much like this...
The Unbeholden- | Quote: | | Human evolution but into one that's become more of a parasite. Parasites feed off its victims usually without its victim knowing about it; examples would be much like a horse that went through the swamp for a swim and ended up with a leech stuck on its back for instance, or a bat feeding on a cow while it sleeps (taking a bit of blood but not enough to kill it, the saliva of a bat has a property that dulls pain). Now the thought of a parasite is not very scary, as it doesn't really pose a threat. But Imagine a human sized parasite that has evolutionized (stronger, faster, sharp teeth) so it can easily extract blood for its survival. The possibilities in evolution branching from humans become ever more varied, as humans are much more complex. |
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"I came half way around the world to watch you run Clarice, let me run huh?" |
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iwillnotsuckyourblood
Zombie Chow
Joined: 15 Feb 2010
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:08 pm Post subject: we cant be immortal |
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we cant be immortal, even if we diddnt age our body would just wear out nothing lasts forever but energy
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ok here goes i am a vampire. now i doubt anyone will take anything i say ever again seriosly (sorry crap at spelling) if you want to know more about us please take the time to vew the website www.vampirewebsite.net i found it very usefull |
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Vampyre13
Dale of the Dead
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 3046
Location: right behind you muwhahahahahaa
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:21 am Post subject: Re: we cant be immortal |
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| iwillnotsuckyourblood wrote: | | we cant be immortal, even if we diddnt age our body would just wear out nothing lasts forever but energy |
Ok.. so we're not immortal. Whats the definition of a vampire then?
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Gramps out!!! *poof* |
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iwillnotsuckyourblood
Zombie Chow
Joined: 15 Feb 2010
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: we cant be immortal |
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| Vampyre13 wrote: | | iwillnotsuckyourblood wrote: | | we cant be immortal, even if we diddnt age our body would just wear out nothing lasts forever but energy |
Ok.. so we're not immortal. Whats the definition of a vampire then? |
human that has been advanced by a retrovirus but needs blood in order to keep up those traits and to live
_________________
ok here goes i am a vampire. now i doubt anyone will take anything i say ever again seriosly (sorry crap at spelling) if you want to know more about us please take the time to vew the website www.vampirewebsite.net i found it very usefull |
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Vampyre13
Dale of the Dead
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 3046
Location: right behind you muwhahahahahaa
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:13 am Post subject: |
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"Advanced" ?? Oh please explain this one.
Blood need as in porphyria?
Traits? What traits? Such as uber sexy cool mojo? A widow's peak?
or sparkly skin in the sunlight?
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Gramps out!!! *poof* |
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